Today in Ohio, the daily news podcast of cleveland.com and The Plain Dealer.
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Heartland Bank, a community bank in the Columbus area, has tapped Ohio Lt. Gov. Jon Husted to be a paid member of its corporate board.
We’re talking about the move, for which the governor’s office could provide no historic precedent for, on Today in Ohio.
Editor Chris Quinn hosts our daily half-hour news podcast, on Wednesdays with city hall reporter Courtney Astolfi, editorial board member Lisa Garvin and content director Laura Johnston.
You’ve been sending Chris lots of thoughts and suggestions on our from-the-newsroom text account, in which he shares what we’re thinking about at cleveland.com. You can sign up for free by sending a text to 216-868-4802.
Here are the questions we’re answering today:
How unusual is it for a statewide elected official to take a paid position on the board of directors of a for-profit company, like Ohio Lt. Governor Jon Husted has done? If all elected leaders start doing this now, will they have even less of a connection with regular people?
Two of Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson’s accusers appeared on HBO Tuesday night to publicly discuss their allegations that Watson sexually abused them. What did they say?
What happens next now that a Cleveland Starbucks staff has voted to form a union, joining a growing national movement?
Speaking of forming unions, the former Amazon worker who was fired after working to form a union spoke out Tuesday. What did he say?
Nearly a half century after taking possession of it, The Cleveland Museum of Art has given up a richly decorated hunting rifle. What is the story behind the rifle, and why is the museum giving it up?
We have spent a lot of time talking about it, but has Cleveland City Council taking a concrete action on actually removing lead paint from city homes?
Is Ohio matching the just-reported increase in alcohol- and drug-induced deaths across the nation during the first year of the pandemic?
Where does the case stand for Cedar Point season pass owners who say te amusement park cheated them out of refunds during the first year of the pandemic?
The world is seeing supply chain problems go unabated since starting during the pandemic, so how might this affect Great Lakes shipping this season?
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Read the automated transcript below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it contains many errors and misspellings.
Chris: [00:00:00] It’s a Wednesday episode of today in Ohio, the news podcast discussion from cleveland.com and the plain dealer. And if it’s Wednesday, it means Courtney Staffie is joining us. I’m Chris Quinn here with Courtney, as well as large Johnston and Lisa Garvin. We’ve got lots of news to talk about. We’re going to dive right in.
How unusual is it for a statewide elected official to take a peed position on the board of directors of a for-profit company? Like Ohio Lieutenant governor, John Houston has done. If all elected leaders started doing this now, would they have even less of a connection with the regular people they’re supposed to represent?
Lisa, this just feels so wrong and icky I’m surprised he did it.
Lisa: It did. And as I dove into the details of the story, I thought, oh, it’s not that bad. But as I dove in, I was like, Hmm, it looks kind of bad because there seem to be some. Of interest here. Uh, Lieutenant governor, John Houston joined the board of directors of Heartland bank Corp.
[00:01:00] This happened in March, but we didn’t know about it until last week because Heartland issued a press release after their annual meeting last week, it is a paid position. The amount was not disclosed, but who said, we’ll have to declare that in 2023 for is mandatory financial disclosure. Um, here are the things that.
Look kind of weird, you know, Houston and his wife, Tina bought shares in Heartland bank Corp earlier this year, before he was appointed. Um, also, uh, let’s see, there was something else. Um, I’m sorry, I can’t find it in my notes, but he, there were definitely different conflicts of interest. Oh, the Heartland bank CEO, Scott McComb gave $17,000 to GOP candidates since 2016, including $5,000 to the Duane Q stead campaign.
And McCombs mother served as state GOP committee person. So yeah, it’s, it’s looking kind of.
Chris: But I think [00:02:00] it goes deeper than that because when you run for public office, the way he has his entire life, you’re saying I’m about public service. We talk yesterday about bill Denon, who was so special because he spent five decades serving the community, not trying to enrich himself.
When you put yourself up for office. I want to be your public servant, not, I want to use this position to get lots of extra money for myself and influence in the business community. It, it just it’s hugely representing. Is he, is he doing this to enrich himself or is he doing it because he believes in service?
The other thing is. He’s kind of a lead in the state on economic development right now he’s on a bank board and it’s just the thing stinks. And it’s not generally done. You don’t see it, but if this opens the flood gate, you know, to somebody like Justin Bibb, then say, well, he’s on it. I can get on boards.
And then who’s he representing the voters or business [00:03:00] interests are, it should be pure. And if anything, people should follow the example of bill Dennison. Not John Houston, this, this is a stinky deal.
Lisa: Yeah, it is. And there really are no other examples of elected state officials taking a paid corporate board position.
Um, but you know, spokeswoman, Haley Carducci says it won’t distract from his Lieutenant governor duties. And, uh, you know, they don’t expect any conflict of interest and they did consult with an attorney, but still. It doesn’t look good. And then Heartland bank’s connections to the state. They’re regulated by the department of commerce.
They can hold cash and investments owned by the state. They got a $22,500 grant via the Ohio air quality development authority. So yeah, this could be really lucrative for
Chris: them. Well, it won’t distract from his duties. If his intention of getting elected was to enrich. Well, you know, I mean, would he get this job if he weren’t the Lieutenant governor?
Probably not. He’s getting it by D look, think [00:04:00] about the bank. Hey, we got the Lieutenant governor on our board. We’re the Kings of the world. It’s just, it’s a terrible message. I can’t believe that Mike DeWine hasn’t said let’s not do that, but you know, Mike, the wind is. Invisible for a couple years. Anyway, it’s a, it’s a bad deal.
And, and if it opens the door for a lot more of this, it’s going to breed a lot more cynicism in the government. I wonder if Nan Whaley will make an issue of this. If she runs against DeWine saying, look at these guys, they’re, they’re so bent on enriching themselves that they’re breaking with long-held tradition in joining corporate board.
Lisa: Yeah, it will be it. Well, we can certainly@theplaindealerincleveland.com make it a campaign issue. And
Chris: we certainly will. You’re listening to today in Ohio to a Brown’s quarterback, Deshaun Watson’s accusers appeared on HBO Tuesday night to publicly discuss their allegations that Watson sexually abused them.
Laura, they were very graphic in their descriptions [00:05:00] and they certainly seem to believe.
Laura: They did absolutely. And they told the stories from their point of view saying what happened and that basically Deshaun Watson didn’t want to wear a towel that he repeatedly tried to move their hands towards his groin area and how uncomfortable and how disgusting they felt doing this and how scared.
Um, one of them said that. After this happened. And she said, no, and kind of backed off and ended this massage. She said, he said, I know you have a career to protect. And she took that as a threat. And you coming from this very powerful sports figure. I, yeah, this is a really. Just emotionally gutting thing for them to be going through it.
Chris: Um, on his side, his lawyer saying there’s one lawyer that took this case, a whole bunch of lawyers took it, refused. He denies all of this. Um, and he, he did. Appear on HBO. He declined to be interviewed. Right? Right. But there there’s a whole [00:06:00] bunch of women saying exact same thing. This is not good for the Browns.
The branch just want this to go away. It’s not going away. Uh, there are a lot of, of sex abuse victims that are paying close attention to this. Something have renounced the Browns for signing. And while this is still out there and we’re still waiting to hear what the NFL is going to do to him, he might not even play this year.
Laura: Correct. Exactly. And that’s what the victim said. They said, um, it feels like a J a big screw you that nobody cares. He can run and throw, and that’s what we care about. And I think that it’s gotta be so hard for a victim to see like the whole world embracing him, like. All of his teammates on vacation last week, right.
To, I don’t even remember where, but, and you wonder what it feels like to be in the Brown’s organization and to be a player and be like, I have to work with this teammate. Do you believe these women? And that’s the thing. It’s 22 stories and soul Soledad. O’Brien said it’s 22 women telling very similar stories and we’ve published Adam freeze [00:07:00] put together, you know, all of them.
They read very, very similarly. And they’re saying, you know, it’s just one attorney. This is the only attorney that would take the case and he’s not getting the benefit of the doubt. He should be innocent until proven guilty. And in every deposition he gives, he’s saying, I don’t regret my actions because I did nothing wrong.
But then there’s this question of consensual sex with three women. And it’s like, how does, uh, a massage turn into that?
Chris: Yeah, I th the thing that’s going to happen all season long is this story. This will be there all, you know, every game he doesn’t play. It’ll be a mention of that. Out of out because he was, uh, suspended and this is going to be the story of the Browns and 2022.
Laura: Right. And it’s not just a Cleveland story, obviously this is a huge national interest watching what happens and how the NFL is going to respond to it. I mean, I think everybody’s waiting to see that and it’ll affect probably all pro sports. Yeah. [00:08:00] And it has a lot to do with their fan base. I do not think the Browns realized what a L what legs this story has.
They thought it would go. They
Lisa: did. I think they totally knew that this story had legs. You’re not going to cough up $235 million. If you don’t have an ice in the whole,
Laura: I don’t think they realized how long it would be going on.
Chris: Well, and they, they, of course, they got them before Trevor Bauer was suspended for two years.
And so they’ve got to be thinking, wait, we thought it was going to be six or eight games, but baseball has set a precedent and you could say, well, it’s a different sport, but that’s a precedent. So
Laura: gree and $230 million in all of those draft picks. It’s like, oh, geez.
Chris: Yeah. Okay. Well, we’ll be talking about this.
I guarantee it all through the rest of the year. It’s today in Ohio. What happens next? Now that a Cleveland Starbucks staff has voted to form a union joining a growing national. Courtney. It [00:09:00] wasn’t a huge vote, but it’s a Cleveland Starbucks that now is unionized. Yeah.
Courtney: Second in Ohio, by just an hour, right after Columbia, a Columbus store voted to do the same thing.
So next up is contract negotiations. So the unions established, but they have to hash out working conditions, pay, and all that fun stuff. Um, there, there are rules in place about, you know, working conditions. Once a union is established before the contract is reached. So things are already moving in. It play here even as they embark upon this negotiation
So as soon as the vote is done, things change, there are certain things that have to happen right away.
Courtney: Yeah. That’s what reporter Sean McDonnell told us in his story. So it affects, you know, what Starbucks can do working conditions wise while the negotiations are happening.
Chris: Yeah, Starbucks, can’t be happy, but this keeps on calming.
Uh, it’d be interesting to see what [00:10:00] kind of contract they get that could take a long time for them to work out though. That’s generally what an employer does. It’ll slow walk. The union negotiation it’s today in Ohio, speaking of former forming unions, a former Amazon worker who was fired after working to form a union in his company, spoke out Tuesday, Laura, what did he say?
Laura: Basically, he came out completely with the story and said, I wasn’t even, you know, doing this on the DL. Like I was very open about trying to unionize. His name is Joey dissat. Nick. He started working at the CLI to fulfillment center in August, 2020. Started organizing the union in the end of March, I believe of 2021.
And he said that, um, he was let go because of. Unionizing, which we knew bef before and now he’s filed this. Uh, complaint with the national labor review board, basically to try to get his job back. Like, that’s what would happen at the end of this, [00:11:00] if they’re felon to have fired him for the wrong
Chris: reasons. W why did he speak out?
Because was there some question about the timing or whether he was public? He just wanted people to be aware that, of course I was being very public about forming the union and of course, that’s why they fired. I’m not
Laura: exactly sure. Uh, Sean McDonald was just able to get ahold of him yesterday. And I don’t know, I don’t think he was ever trying to hide his identity.
He obviously was openly talking about this on breaks and he got a list of 230 other workers interested in unionizing. I mean he’s fired. He’s obviously fighting that, but I feel like the more information there is about this, the more people that are going to say, Hey, that’s wrong, Amazon. What’s really interesting is he says, Amazon doesn’t want to keep its workers.
I feel like every other business is trying to retain workers and do things to keep them happy. And they, according to him, just want to keep getting new workers in the door and then let go of the ones [00:12:00] who have been there longer and are earning more.
Chris: Wow really? That’s the argument. They’re just getting people in a couple of years, you raise up the salary scale.
Laura: Yeah. I mean, that’s his argument and in Amazon, Amazon is not reacting to that specifically. Um, I believe they put out a statement, but, um, yeah, does that Nick said supervisors were using computers and write-ups as a quote, modern day whip and the write-ups were used to speed up workers or to get rid of them.
Chris: Wow, you’re right. That is not the way it’s working and almost any other industry. Every other industry has been reviewing their salary structures and changing their policies. Benefits trying to hold on to people. I read a story. I think it was in the New York times this morning that people who jumped jobs last year, many of them quit the new jobs within months because they’re insisting on being treated well and feel treated well.
They’re saying Sianora so interesting. Amazon’s Senate work in
Laura: that way. Right. And if this is all coming out, do you [00:13:00] think you want to go work for Amazon right now? I don’t know, but he, um, he said he had also won an all star award and become a trainer. So this guy was, you know, considered a really valuable employee.
Chris: Well, we’ll keep track of this one too. You’re listening to today. Nearly a half century after taking possession of it, the Cleveland museum of art has given up a richly decorated hunting rifle. What’s the story behind the rifle. And why is the museum giving it up? Lisa, a little bit of history, a little bit of world war, two intrigue, a little bit of
This is part of a trend in a museums across the world to return things that were looted during world war two. And apparently this. Is one of those things. It’s a 19th century, French hunting rifle created by renowned French gunsmith genre page at the Dawn of the 19th century. It was in the collection of a Polish count, count Krzyzewski.
He had a big collection of militaria and there’s actually an 1856 photograph from a Warsaw [00:14:00] exhibition that shows this gun in. The museum identify it and prove that it was a Polish war loss. So we found out about this exchange, not from the Cleveland museum, but from the Polish ministry of culture and natural heritage, they released a press release on May 16th.
Uh, the museum has not said anything about it, but they have a habit of returning things that have been proven to be stolen or alluded. Um, they, over a dozen objects from the museum’s collection has been returned since 2009.
Chris: You just wonder what percentage of the material in American museums was obtained in shady ways and you know, pretty much, you know, is every Egyptian artifact, should it all be returned to Egypt because Egypt wasn’t selling it.
I just feel like this is going to become. Uh, a much bigger trend in the end and there’ll be fewer artifacts to be looking at in American museums. And
Lisa: to be fair, you know, the museum didn’t know this gun. They didn’t [00:15:00] know the Providence of this gun. You know, they, they took it innocently back in 1966. I don’t think it’s been on display even for quite a while.
So a lot of these, it’s not like the museum is knowingly taking, you know, alluded artifacts, but it seems like, like you said, a lot of the sanctioned history probably was looted at
Chris: some point. But I wonder if the museums have a responsibility now to go back and try and figure out the provenance of each of their artifacts.
You’re right. The museum didn’t knowingly take stolen looted goods, but. How many other things in their possession they have where they don’t know the provenance, and if they start to investigate it, they might find that they shouldn’t have possession. Fascinating story. I, and they’re doing the right thing.
Uh, it’s interesting how long it has taken to repeat repatriate that rifle it’s been 80 years roughly, right? Yeah. Okay. Check out that story. It’s a good one. It’s on cleveland.com. You [00:16:00] are listening to today in Ohio. We have spent a lot of time talking about it, but as Cleveland city council taken a concrete action on actually removing lead paint from city homes, Courtney, this was your story.
Courtney: Uh, well it was originally and our new ARPA reporter Lucas to pearly actually followed up on this this week. Um, but, but this is, um, on Monday night, council voted to address. 17 million from the city’s allocation of federal aid to put it towards led remediation, making homes, sled safe. Now this comes on top of a prior 5 million that council put down, but this is a significant, significantly larger chunk of money that, that council’s putting down here and this contribution.
Brings the lead safe home find to $115 million. And it really gives the orchestrators of that fund. The ability to usher in what they’re calling phase two of making Cleveland led safe. So this new [00:17:00] money is going to be also going to, to owner occupied homeowners. Right now, most of the money that’s floating out there for.
Has been going towards rentals. So it’s also going to pay for workforce development to train folks, to remediate lead in homes and a variety of, of other led related initiatives.
Chris: So in another life, many years ago, I was a reporter in Florida when they were spending a ton of money in public housing, on lead remediation, and it turned out.
The bit of fraud that, that a lot of charlatan companies stepped in didn’t really do good quality work and the money was squandered. What kind of controls do you think Cleveland city council will put in to make sure that this money is spent effectively?
Courtney: Well, you know, I think those on city council would point to this coalition that’s been operating in contract.
A bunch of local nonprofits and big organizations, and [00:18:00] it’s a lot of top tier kind of community organizations that are overseeing this. The Mount Sinai foundation is kind of acting, I think, is as fiscal agent and managing the money for this coalition. So there’s a lot of big name organizations involved.
I think council’s confident that that working group has the tools in place to make sure. That the money’s being spent correctly here, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s continued council oversight and discussion of this.
Chris: Well, yeah. The question is who, who awards the contracts, who are the companies that get the contracts?
Will there be transparency about that? If the money is going through the hands of the coalition, is the coalition bound by public records law because it’s public money or will they claim exemptions? I mean, it’s a. Day that the fund has that much money. That’s a serious chunk of money to finally deal with the long-term health of Cleveland’s children.
Now, the rigor is needed [00:19:00] to make sure it’s spent right. We have a long history in this region of when there’s big blocks of money. Not, not making sure it’s spent the way it should be. And I guess that’s part of Lucas’s job as stimulus watch reporter, he’ll be following that money. Would
Lisa: they be hiring like a lead czar?
Have they done? You know, like somebody who would oversee the lead, you know, distribution of the money.
Chris: I think that’s the coalition, right? Courtney they’re there. The coalition is in effect. The LED’s are w
Courtney: coalition is really spearheading all of this, but internally I, gosh, I’m pretty sure bibs hired a, an internal city hall LED’s are as
Okay. Well, we’ll be following it. I hope they spend it. Well it’s today. Is Ohio matching the just reported increase in alcohol and drug induced deaths across the nation. During the first year of the pandemic, Lisa we’ve talked an awful lot about the trauma that people suffer during the pandemic, not just the first year, but pretty much ever [00:20:00] since it started, these numbers are pretty horrifying as an indicator of how much trauma there was.
Lisa: Yeah, and you can crunch these numbers several different ways. Ohio looks better in some categories and not in others. This is a report from the trust for America’s health and the wellbeing trust. They took a look at the alcohol drug deaths, alcohol deaths, drug deaths, and suicides comparing 2019 to 2020.
So nationally. Alcohol deaths were 27% national and in 29% in Ohio. So we had more alcohol deaths here in the Buckeye state drug deaths nationally were 30%. And then only 22% in Ohio, which is interesting because we’ve always been kind of an opioid, you know, epicenter here. So we had lower drug deaths in Ohio.
The nation suicides were down overall down 3% nationally and down 9% here in Ohio, but then they crunch the numbers a different way. So they took a combined rate, [00:21:00] combining alcohol drug deaths, and suicides. Overall, all of those deaths were up 20% in the USA. It was over 186,700 deaths in 2020 in Ohio. Up only 16%.
We had 5,300 drug deaths, 1,599, alcohol deaths and 1,644 suicides in 2020. The combined rate increased in every state except new hands.
Chris: It’s really frightening numbers and the real indicator of the stress of the pandemic. Another indicator seems to be the, the live shooter situations. You know, we, the week ago, last week we had the horrifying.
Uh, happening in Buffalo or somebody goes in with a racist intent and kills 10 people. And then yesterday we had somebody go into a school and kill the children. And the FBI two days ago released a report that said the number of those kinds of shootings doubled in a year doubled in a year. And they’re
Lisa: saying, yeah, the [00:22:00] experts are saying that pandemic stress has led to negative behaviors such as this.
And, uh, you know, the 20, 21 figures once they become. It could be even worse and interesting about the drug deaths. It effected all age groups except 75 and older, but it was strongest in those 17 years old and younger and young adults, 18 to 30.
Chris: You know, we talked before we started the recording, that there does seem to be a lot more language in the political sphere.
That’s about hate and violence. And you wonder whether all of that anger and hate drives some of the, the indicators we’re seeing with, with the drinking and the drugs and the suicide and, and all the others. It’s, uh, it’s been a tough time. We’ve been. What is the effect on children being raised today?
Have, try and look at that it’s today in Ohio. Where does the case stand for Cedar point season pass owners who say the amusement park [00:23:00] cheated them out of refunds during the first year of the pandemic, Courtney, they seem like they have a really good point about this, but they’re having to go to court to make it.
Courtney: Yeah. So there’s two lawsuits ongoing there’s one this week. It’s going to the Ohio Supreme court for oral arguments on behalf of past holders who in the summer of 2020 season cut short. They didn’t. All the bang for their buck after they bought season passes for the park. Right? So these two lawsuits could affect T 2 million pass holders across all of Cedar Fair’s brands that also includes King’s island and 11 others.
But for this one case, we’re talking about this week, that’s going before the Ohio Supreme court. You know, depending on the outcome there, it could be kicked back to trial court and allowed to proceed. So there’s been an appeals process. Cedar fair lawyers are arguing. You know, the pandemic was an unforeseeable once in a lifetime event, they extended past benefits through 2021.
So those who had the 2020 passes could still [00:24:00] go the following year. But the, the plaintiffs here say, no, you don’t give the service. You, you can’t keep our money. So it’ll be really interesting to see. Whether this is allowed to go forward as a result of this week’s action. Yeah.
Chris: I, I, it would be like if you paid for a car and the hurricane went through the car dealership, destroyed the car and the dealer says, oh, well, you know, hurricane came, sorry, you don’t get the car.
It doesn’t work that way. These people paid for something they didn’t get. If Cedar point would have given them the choice and said, look, we’ll give you your money back or we’ll extend it through 2021. Okay, fine. But I just don’t see how Cedar point doesn’t end up paying this back with some interest and maybe some penalties.
Laura: that? I was a seasoned passholder I bought our first ever season pass gold gold passes in 2019. And you got them for like the very end of that summer and all of the next for a hundred bucks. Right. So obviously the pandemic and then they, you know, they send it. 2021. So I probably got to [00:25:00] go seven or eight or nine times with my kids and for a hundred bucks.
And I thought it was like the best deal ever. But you have to think Cedar point, not very many people would have asked for their money back because you were giving them this great option of a whole nother season. So how much would it have cost you just to give that money back instead, you’re fighting this massive lawsuit in the Supreme court.
The court of public opinion. Like it just doesn’t seem very smart.
Chris: I know that that’s the thing. If you would have given people the option, I bet most of them would’ve said, yeah, sure. I’ll, I’ll take it and
Laura: not given the option, but just if somebody emailed you and said, Hey, I don’t think this is fair. Just like quietly on the DL, but like, okay.
Like, sure. I don’t get it. Yeah.
Chris: They, they, they botched this and, well, we’ll see. I mean, I guess this has happened elsewhere in the country, Courtney, according to our story with mixed results. Um,
Courtney: yeah, so, so there was a similar case in, in Washington state, [00:26:00] um, you know, involving a passholder Knott’s Berry farm, that’s also a Cedar fair property.
And, um, you know, last month a us district court judge ruled against Cedar fair, asked, uh, for dismissal of the case. And he said, Nope, let’s move it forward. So that could be an indication of what’s happening.
Chris: Okay, we’ll follow this case. It’s today in Ohio, the world is seeing supply chain problems go unabated.
They began during the pandemic. How might that affect great lakes shipping this season? We turn to our lady of the lake. Laura,
Laura: that’s actually the camp nickname that one of my campers wanted to get me this fast. Um, but no, I love this story because it basically shows that the great lakes are just this.
Stable steady presence in our lives. That shipping has been incredibly stable throughout the pandemic. It’s actually been growing at a steady clip and they expect more growth during [00:27:00] the shipping season. And basically we’re not seeing the same kind of congestion that they’ve seen on the coast. They’ve they really want to increase more capacity here so that we can get more things delivered to the great lakes, but the Saint Lawrence Seaway that stretches from the Atlantic ocean.
Into the great lakes move 38 million metric, tons of cargo to ports and Canada and the U S in 2021. That was a 1.6% increase from 20, 20 season. And, uh, yeah, the, the lack of change actually, and the lack of problems really made the great lake stand out and this whole very crazy world that we’re living in.
Chris: am surprised given just how many supply chain problems. Keep cropping up that it didn’t impact it. I mean, cause stuff isn’t available, anybody that seeks to buy something, now it’s a crapshoot as to whether it’s going to be available.
Laura: Yeah. And I mean, a lot of this is the com is the very base stuff.
Like they’re the ingredients to [00:28:00] make steel or, you know, they’re transporting wheat. They’re not transporting a whole lot of finished products. Coming from Europe, they can, I mean, the majority of traffic in the great lakes is that those Lakers that never leave the lakes. So I think that has something to do with it, but they’ve already seen more business because of coastal port issues.
And, um, they’re getting more and more containers, which are those more finished products, because in, everybody’s seen the container ships where like the whole container comes on and off the ship and it can go on a train or on a semi-truck. But what we’re also used to seeing in Cleveland is on the. The west side of the river, that giant bulk turnable terminal, right.
Where it’s just the, the aggregate stuff that goes to the steel mill. That’s been very steady.
Chris: Okay. Well, let’s hope they have a successful year. It’s good for the economy you’re listening to today in Ohio and that’s it for Wednesday. Thank you, Laura. Thank you, Lisa. Thank you, Courtney. And thanks to everybody who listens to this podcast.[00:29:00]
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